I have a whole lot of thoughts about this article in the Los Angeles Times on Latinos who work alongside people like the Minutemen. (If you check this out later in the week, you might need to register, but you could also just use Bug Me Not.
The final quote is, “We are not like them.”
This is somewhat true. I was born here and because of that I’m automatically a citizen. I’ve never worried about getting a job or being able to afford school because I was ineligible for financial aid or because I was charged higher fees/tuition because of my status as an undocumented student. I’m not completely terrified when I cross the border into Mexico or wait in the long ass line on my way back into the US because I’m afraid they won’t let me back in or detain me.
I do have a ton of privilege, but I also have family who are not as privileged. My parents were not always citizens. They’ve been harassed at the border and called wetbacks. To try to divide myself from my friends and other people in my community who do look like me and share a culture and a lot of experiences is petty.
Well, I know there are some people I’m different from: those who are against undocumented immigration.
Better to let the agricultural economy suffer and fruit to go to … waste. It bothers me so much to hear the same rhetoric. That so-called “illegals” take jobs away and drain resources without recognizing how much they contribute to our state.
Cindy:
Este fin de semana estube mirando Blade Runner (1982) basada en el libro: Do androids Dream of Electric Sheep? del escritor Philip Dick, en ella Decker el actor principal interpretado Por Harrison Ford hace una refleccion al final del film, donde reconoce que que los seres que persigue son tan parecidos al el y con las mismas preguntas que todos nos hacemos:
¿Quienes somos?
¿a donde venimos?
y ¿hacia donde vamos?
Ahora tambien recuerdo que en mi primera visita al Museo Nacional de Antropología de la Cd de México; mi padre me descubria, “estos somos”, “de esta gente venimos”.
En el año del ’92 llegue a la Cd de Los Angeles, y entre Rodney King, el terremoto de Northridge, el jucio de OJ Simpson, Bush, Clinton, Bush, el S-11, el 11-M, Bush, ENRON, las Guerras, la gasolina a tres dolares por galon, los bumper stickers de “apoya a nuestras tropas” y los Minuteman; pensaba a ¿donde vamos?
¿Porqué entre nosotros tambien tenemos esas divisiones? Soy mexicano, pero ni mi novia activista de MECHA, ni soy chicano, ni pertemnesco al club zacatecano o michoacano o oaxacaqueño, ni soy RAZA, ni del Teatro campesino ni estudie en UCLA, UCI, ni soy home boy, y tampoco tengo por que sentirme mal por no serlo, pero esto solo me hace pensar que hace que nosotros mismos nos separemos; Una tactica de Napoleon si mal no recuerdo fue “Divide y venceras” Es ahi a donde vamos, a la anarquia del pueblos de habla hispana en US?
¿A donde vamos?
I agree with you Lex. If Friends of the Border and Minutemen really cared about US econcomic woes they’d picket in front of Walmart or GM. And ask why are jobs going overseas for cheap labor? No one seems to compalin about that anymore. And let me add that there are many European immigrants that are smuggled in daily through the US-Canadian border. Not much is said about that, but I guess since they’re light skinned it’s alright.
Julissa you have a point… many people don’t understand that Illegal Immigration is not only from the South. In school I almost got disciplined by an English Professor for writing about Illegal Immigration from Europe, he took offense… the reality is that the US has always had Illegal Immigration. Did the Pilgrims have Green Cards??? The problem lies in that there are many third or even second generation latinos that seem to forget how many of their abuelos and parents got here in the first place… a lot of illegal immigrants come and do the jobs that not even the legal jobless and homeless would be willing to do… and they contribute to the economy in purchases and some even file taxes using ITIN’s… most illegals come to work, in whatever they can, no matter the working conditions… we should however, enforce the border against those that come to engage in criminal activity…
Lex,
I saw that article too, but the other one interested me more for some reason. While I was reading/writing, I really should have been paying attention to the plenary session of the conference…
Julissa,
I was talking about the fact that not all undocumented immigration is from Mexico and Latin America with a Japanese friend at school. She mentioned that there are tons of Asians who are here without the proper papers or who have overstayed visas, but you rarely hear about them.
Rodolfo,
Nice gravatar, but what’s up with your A’s? If I would have had more time while I was up north, it would have been nice to go to a game, especially the one against the Twins on Friday night when Johan Santana pitched… yummy. Oh yeah, back to the topic, I’ve been reading more about ITIN’s lately. I didn’t know that undocumented immigrants could get a mortgage using and ITIN.
Julissa,
I’m curious, you write, “If Friends of the Border and Minutemen really cared about US econcomic woes they’d picket in front of Walmart or GM. And ask why are jobs going overseas for cheap labor? No one seems to compalin about that anymore”.
I find it interesting that you seem to be for immigration, ‘illegal’ immigration at that, but are against free trade and companies like Wal-Mart. As a person who is both, for ‘illegal’ immigration AND for free trade and in support of Wal-Mart, I am curious at how you can separate the two. The economics of both are closely tied together, and the arguments against one are closely tied to the arguments against the other. “Loss of jobs”, “exploitation”, and “greed” are all common themes in both situations, yet you are for one and against the other. Care to explain?
they are in a funk… I think it’s the curse of the twins (playoffs) and the curse of miggy… they better not lose to the royals who have lost 18 straight… did you hear about the wal-mart that is opening here in the town, they got something like 11, 000 applications for only 400 jobs, I think that goes to show the economic times we are in, and more so how Oakland is so desperate for any type of big business that provides jobs… I don’t think Oakland has recuperated from the 80′s… and yeah ITIN’s are a very valuable tool for many…
Hello HP – I do not condone illegal immigration, yet I understand the reason why many choose to come to this country, perhaps that sounds like an apologist, but that is my opinion. The point that I am trying to make is that people cannot solely lie the blame on illegals for our countries economic woes. The reality is that large companies prefer to transfer jobs outside of the US for the sole purpose of greed, but use the pretext of free trade. Free trade was invented with the intent to create jobs not only in this country, but the countries which participate in free trade as well, yet the biggest losers have been the people from the US not the companies or the government themselves. There is nothing wrong with Free trade as long as there is equality across the board, but unfortunately it seems as if the US has the short hand of the stick.
Julissa,
I don’t mean to be pushy, but I am still confused by your response. I could just as easily switch the words free trade and immigration, and reply back to you with the same thing. I could say,
“The point that I am trying to make is that people cannot solely lie the blame on FREE TRADE for our countries economic woes. The reality is that large companies prefer to HIRE ILLEGALS of the US for the sole purpose of greed, but use the pretext of IMMIGRATION. IMMIGRATION was invented with the intent to create jobs not only in this country, but the countries which participate in IMMIGRATION as well, yet the biggest losers have been the people from the US not the companies or the government themselves”.
You get the idea…In fact, I could even go back and replace illegal immigration with just legal immigration itself, and make the same arguments.
In fact, problems are even worse than what I allude to above. The arguments for free trade, either the economic argument or the humanitarian argument, are stronger with free trade than they are with immigration, legal or not.
Every economist, liberal or conservative, from Paul Krugman to Walter Williams, is for free trade. They all agree that it is a win-win situation for all countries involved, and whether the other country allows free trade or not. And not just free trade, but also ‘sweatshops’.
Remember, without these ‘greedy’ companies, many people in the third world would not be able to feed themselves or their children. Free trade, more than anything else, has caused the largest reduction in absolute poverty across the world. So if you can make the humanitarian argument for immigration, you can make it 100X more for free trade.
So the economics arguments for free trade are much stronger than they are for immigration, and the humanitarian arguments are too, so since you can’t appeal to either, what else can you use to support immigration (legal or not) but not free trade?
Geez…
HP – It is obvious that you have some expertise when it comes to economics. That is not what I have studied. Yet you seem to be missing my point completely. As just the average person, I have my own views and convictions on free trade as well as immigration, whether it be legal or illegal.
I don’t see free trade really doing what everyone who backed it anticipated, except for the fact that these companies have made huge profits for themselves.
Many Americans have lost their good paying jobs, and many third world citizens who work for these companies are being exploited because they are being paid pennies on the dollar. They still barely make ends meet with what they are being paid, which is the main reason many choose to still want to come to America to pursue the American dream, albeit legally or illegally.
Julissa,
Honestly, I didn’t start this discussion to pick a fight or anything. I did it to hopefully shed light on how, what I think, absurd and morally bankrupt are the arguments against free trade. I took it as a given that you see the logical and compassionate arguments in favor of immigration, and thought I could get you to see the same arguments in favor of free trade by making a parallel (since there is a strong parallel). So here, allow me to show you my point that I still feel you don’t see.
The primary benefit of both free trade and immigration is economic growth and economic growth benefits both, the poor person and the rich person, but it primarily benefits the poor person. Unlike other economic benefits, the benefits of economic growth are much more subtle, yet substantial. Since economic growth affects everyone, it is much harder to see from the inside, it is much harder to see at one particular point in time, but the long term benefits are clear and significant.
But there is a downside. People do lose jobs and have to adapt to the ever changing markets. But this is the case with all progress. For example, when the computer was invented, many people in the typewriter industry lost their jobs. Cell phones, for example, has caused a large reduction in the employment of people in the land line business. etc.etc. In other words, jobs come and go, it is not just because of free trade, but primarily because of progress that this is so. Should we stop progress all together just to save jobs? Or should people, no matter how hard it may be, learn to adapt to an economy where people will be changing jobs very frequently? In addition, this is still not the full picture. Free trade only takes jobs away from inefficient sectors of the market, but it also creates jobs in the efficient sectors of the market. So just as there are some jobs that are lost because of free trade, there are also many jobs created because of free trade. And in fact, all economists believe there will be more jobs created (with higher wages and so forth) because of free trade.
But here, let us assume that there is a net loss of jobs because of free trade. I don’t believe this, but for the sake of argument, let us assume. Even if this was the case, free trade would still be justified. Remember, these jobs typically go to countries that have several people under the global poverty line. Take these jobs away from them, take these ‘greedy corporations’ away from them, and they will be left in much worse circumstances. Small pay is better than no pay, is the way it works in these countries. The only way to lift them out of povery, the only way to give them and their children food, is through these ‘greedy corporations’. To them, these ‘greedy corporations’ are a God sent!! If you take them away, you are leaving them in much worse circumstances. Throughout history, nothing has reduced absolute poverty more in the history of the world than these ‘greedy corporations’. Yet you want to take that away? You want to doom them to an even worse environment than they are in so we in the United States can continue driving our Mercedes Benz’s and BMW’s? If that isn’t greed, I don’t know what is….
HP, I think you made your point two postings ago. Please do not make me sound like some immoral monster that doesn’t value the humanitarian effort in third world countries. I understand that those living in poverty would value a job that paid them five cents an hour as opposed to nothing at all . However, my point was that they would give that up in a heartbeat to come to the US to make more than five cents – legally or illegally.
Julissa,
Oh, I completely agree with you there. So we agree then, both immigration (legal or not) and free trade is a compassionate thing to do.
Now can we talk about Wal-Mart? I kid…
Thanks for your patience Julissa, I meant no offense. De verdad.
HP