Comments on: A march and a funeral

By: Diego

Diego — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:11:32 +0000

Here’s the picture Fabián said I unearthed:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/diegorenteria/Firebaugh.jpg

By: Tina

Tina — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:35:30 +0000

Yea, I’m not the person that you know … there are a lot of Korean American Tinas! I just read that you’re at GSE&IS! I’m in TEP right now! It’s spring break, but I’m still student-teaching … anyway, small world!

By: cindylu

cindylu — Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:46:15 +0000

Fabian,
The working hard for our community makes me think of what Hector told me once. He said that the best thing I could do for my community was to study and become the best _______ (whatever I chose) I could be. It makes me think about the kids who are walking out. I know there’s a time and space for that, but I also think that those kids could be activists by staying in school too. Am I just getting old by thinking this stuff? I don’t know…

By: fabian

fabian — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:46:12 +0000

good entries cindy on the ongoing debate. i was at the marcha and it was powerful, but i write this entry on the related note you put in. I was not able to attend the mass for Marco since I had an emergency meeting, but I saw it online. My family attended a mass on his honor in South Gate last week and my brother is writing an article about him for his school newspaper. He unearthed a picture of Marco and I back when I was a junior in high school. I remember when Marco came to our class in 1998 and spoke to us about issues affecting raza, immigrants, and the need to always work hard to make things better for our community. It was the first time a “politician” spoke to many of us about issues affecting raza and who we genuinely felt understood our experience [it helped that he was born in Baja California]. It is sad to know that he will be gone and I only hope that more folks step up to fight for such important goals.

By: cindylu

cindylu — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 06:40:00 +0000

Derek,
Honestly, I think all the people in the protest march could have been waving USA flags, chanting strictly in English (though I don’t see why bilingualism isn’t valued) and the right wing commenters would still be complaining. The flag issue is just something to ignore the real issue that there are real people — both undocumented and not — who are upset with the way this latest round of immigration reform and are doing something about it (seems like it happens every ten years, IRCA in ’86, Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigration Responsibility Act, and now this).

I didn’t see any comment from you in response to Alejandro. Sorry.

Alejandro,
Great points. I think the America we think of when we think of America (i.e. WASP) is scared that the US will no longer be mainly white.

Tina,
Welcome to the blog and great points too. I thought you might be another Korean American woman I know named Tina, but you’re probably not. I also immediately thought of Adam Carolla’s racist transgressions against the API community a few months ago. I’ve stopped taking anything he says seriously when he and Dr. Drew started wagering about why young women who called in to LoveLine were messed up. I found that rather sexist and his “ching chong” comments are clearly racist. I don’t expect too much from drivetime morning show hosts, but the Spanish-language ones seem to be okay lately (e.g. Piolín).

By: Derek

Derek — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 03:44:02 +0000

Point understood.

Cindylu, could have sworn I posted a comment in response to Alejandro — did it go missing or am I tripping?

By: Tina

Tina — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:27:08 +0000

Hey Derek,

I didn’t immigrate. I was born in Los Angeles. My grandparents and parents immigrated from Korea in the ’70s. However, I consider my experience as a second-generation American the most powerful to have shaped my outlook. The difficult choices and sacrifices that my family and all others have had to make as immigrants … I will never be that brave!

If I may, I can rephrase my earlier statement to read that “it’s clear that the US is not willing to accept immigrants [OF COLOR] (documented or otherwise) as fully American.” A European immigrant (considered White in the US) would be more easily and happily accepted by dominant culture as an American than one from Asia or Latin America or Africa and on and on. In a place like LA, the vast majority of immigrants are people of color, which accounts for my generalized statement.

As for the assimilation comments, I didn’t intend to equate assimilation with lawfulness. What I referred to was your question about the flag-waving. Honestly, I don’t see how the flags at this week’s protests are different from St. Patrick’s Day, with the exception that the protests have much graver consequences. But, both are occassions for Americans and those who love this place to show our diversity and history and pride. Yet, because it’s half a million brown folks waving flags instead of tipsy barhoppers with a pint of green beer in the other hand, we question their loyalty and true intentions, which Alejandro points out in his comment.

Thanks for making me think!

By: Derek

Derek — Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:34:03 +0000

Tina, this is a bold statement: ‘…it’s clear that the US is not willing to accept immigrants (documented or otherwise) as fully American…’ and one that I don’t think you’ll be able to faithfully back up. That immigration and illegal immigration (and even Hispanics as a group) have been convoluted by some — on both sides — into one issue is not pertinent to the matter at hand: having a plan to deal with illegal immigration.

How long ago did you immigrate here, Tina, just out of curiosity? Part of my family’s ancestry were immigrants in the late 19th century — the others probably longer than that (a case of borders crossing people vs. the other way around). So in my case, I didn’t immigrate here, and I’m coming from a different perspective than you are. Regardless of this, bringing up “assimilation” I think is a red herring in this discussion. It implies “following the rules” is part of “assimilation” which is not fair.

In other words, one can speak Spanish, live in a Spanish-speaking enclave, listen to Spanish-language media and all the while still maintain and adhere to a culturally independent rule of law in one’s country. The two — nonassimilation and legality — are not mutually exclusive. I think the discussion gets boiled down to racism unjustly when it’s discussed in terms of assimilation (which people have hugely varying view on, clearly). I do think it’s easier for people to brush off a strongly held opinion of Americans about illegal immigration as racism rather than a legitimate concern about fairness and law.

I’ll retract my Adam Carolla reference — I don’t know much about him — normally I listen to music on the way into work.

Respectfully,
D.

By: Alejandro

Alejandro — Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:07:00 +0000

I have to say that I agree with Tina. The symbolic presence of an immigrants native flag is essential in establishing a heritage and legacy that over time, assimilation will defeat. We can't reduce the fact that these people are simply exemplifying profound emotions to their country of origin. That girl Mr. Corolla is talking about, are we to criticize why she may still miss the man who beat her? We probably will. But it's difficult to understand why people leave one place, go to another better place, but miss the former. I bet it's an extremely difficult decision for someone to leave, not just a land or territory, but culture and identity behind. The hardest decision I ever made was choosing UCLA over Berkeley, but none of them will ever define who I am. Yet, a nation defines your cause, your fight, your identity, and above all your cultural growth. It falls along the same reason why I'll root for El Tri over the US national team every single time. I'm a citizen by birth, but by Tradition, i'm a man from another country, but above all, I have a consciousness of assuming i'm a citizen of the world; and that I will fight for. Am I less of a patriot here in America? Yes because I might not fight for the ideals. But as a citizen, I have the freedom to change all of that correct? Hypothetically, let's take these foreign flag waving immigrants and make them citizens as well. Then they may wave the stars & stripes. But does America want to allow this? Will it allow this? Furthermore, what is this America really scared of? Assimilating to a certain set of standards is a difficult experience. We are all capable of adapting to new surroundings and astounding our own potential. However, immigrants are caught in a bind in the year 2006, in which they aren't necessarily accepted by society as individuals, have already been placed in a class that is deemed underprivilaged, and yet, still try to gain acceptance in W.A.S.P. America. The waving of foreign flags represents tradition. The fusing with the American flag means transcendence. Immigrants will wave those American flags high and far when they aren't considered "immigrants", but outstanding contributers to this country. I assure you that Lou Dobbs will never understand that. © Citoyen du Monde Inc. 2006™

By: Tina

Tina — Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:12:12 +0000

I feel that waving other flags along with the United States’ is a strong statement that immigrants and their families need not assimilate in order to contribute to this country. There is nothing wrong with loving your country of origin and the US. Unfortunately, in these times, assimilation is synonymous with dominant culture, which is driven and controlled by white males. As the most recent wave of immigrants to this country, we don’t need to fit the model set by Europeans over a century ago. Besides, it’s clear that the US is not willing to accept immigrants (documented or otherwise) as fully American – a perception change that must occur, but should not solely be the responsibility of immigrants.

Also, a sidenote on Adam Carolla. A few months ago, he ridiculed an Asian American awards show by replaying clips from it on his radio program and dubbing over it with nonsense “ching chong” gibberish. He may not be overtly politically active, but he clearly does not see immigrant communities as American because, keep in mind, this show honored Asian AMERICANS. He’s not really the best example of unbiased observer on issues of immigration and nativism.

http://www.aaja.org/news/community/2006_01_27_1/