Gene posed a question over at okayplayer:
Is there any living black person as despised by black folk as Clarence Thomas?
If so, who?
Responses included Ward Connerly, Thomas Sowell, Condoleeza Rice, OJ Simpson and others. A lot of others couldn’t come up with anyone despised as much as Clarence Thomas.
The post got me thinking about Chicanos. Do we have an equivalent to Thomas? My first thought was Alberto Gonzales. What do you all think?
La pregunta:
Clarence Thomas :: Black people
______________ :: Chicanos
Who is our vendid@ (not that we’d like to claim him/her, but you know…)?
Alberto Gonzales or Jessica Alba? Touch choice.
Richard Rodriguez. He hates being Chicano and wrote a book about it!!!
Alberto Gonzalez for sho’.
Jessica Alba is a close second but she’s just tontita and not evil like Thomas or Gonzalez.
Personally, as a Chicano, I despise Paul Rodriguez the most. The man isn’t funny, he’s annoying, and I get embarrassed being brown whenever he’s in a movie. I’d give my spinal cord just to punch that guy in the throat.
Alberto Gonzalez and Linda Chavez.
I’ll take a pass on Richard Rodriguez because I think he is a poster child for all that can go wrong when I child is forced to forget and deny the language and culture of his parents. I’ll never forget, for example, the image of the adult Rodriguez children returning for a family meal, in their furs and BMWs and flaunting their wealth at the dinner table, while the father is silent and powerless, having lost his voice and his role in the family because he does not speak English.
Anyone at a Mexican Embassy I’d say. Anyone who is a Chicano and calls themselves Latino instead stating that that the word chicano is a form of elitism.
You guys beat me to the punch with Jessica Alba and Richard Rodriguez, damn!
I wonder if Perez Hilton is chicano?
ahhh, Rio, I like Paul. Pobresito, he was in that movie with Cheech?
he’s just trying to make some money off of chicano. i don’t know i think i remember being really proud of him for talking about chicanos way back when nobody would talk about them. He was the first Mind of Mencia in the 80′s. uy mijo, u were small. I think we needed a really nice guy like Paul in order to create the beasts we now have such as Carlos M. He was just a necessary evil. Eventually I hope we don’t need these cultural producers who cut the fat that is the distance between Chicanos, Mejicanos and gringitos.
I really want to say Lou Diamond Phillips, but he’s OK.
I think Eddie Olmos has done allot to present a 1-dimensional hispanic, but atleast he’s doing something.
Man, this is a tough one….Nope, I think we’re all just fine.
Lokier,
LDP is Filipino, or at least his mother is.
I think Alberto is our Clarence, but I’m sure there’s worse characters out there.
a version of this debate is going on at guanabee.com, but my vote is alberto gonzalez.
I’d go with Alberto Gonzalez and Richard Rodriguez. I can’t stand either one of them at all.
I would vote for Alberto Gonzalez but I also really despise those folks that honestly feel that Chicanos need to reclaim Aztlan. That’s just ridiculous. Most of these folks are usually members of MECHa.
Gonzales.
@strommen I’ll also pass on Rodriguez, too. I’ll never understand all the extreme Rodriguez bashing–so he doesn’t share 100% of your views, big deal. For that he deserves derision? Disagree with him, yes, but get some perspective. No where near Gonzales-level evilness.
1. He is one of the best American essayists alive.
2. His writing thrusted Affirmative Action and Bilingual Education into the national discourse.
3. He has contributed much to the study of the Chicano.
[Olmos is still on my sellout list.]
so he doesn’t share 100% of your views, big deal. For that he deserves derision? Disagree with him, yes, but get some perspective.
Many of the people mentioned here would probably feel honored to be on the vendido list (especially one made by Chicanos) – I know I certainly would.
Personally, Richard Rodriguez is as far left as I can go…everything to the left of him disgusts me….puro pinchi vendidos, I say.
Ralph De Unamuno.
Just kidding. He’s a super Chicano.
Man, that Jessica Alba really pisses me off. Obviously she’s brown! Homegirl, you’re not fooling anyone! Her recent box office flops is Raza giving her the middle finger and not going to her movies. Perez is Cuban and proud of it. He’s not down for Castro though.
BTW, for most beloved Chicano, how far would people rank Morrissey? Jajajajaja
Zulma, how can you defend the man who starred in “A Million to Juan”? Even when it comes to halfway decent movies like Tortilla Soup, Rodriguez goes and stinks it up. He’s always represented the Chicano version of a minstrel to me. I can’t think of a single role where he didn’t shuck & jive his way through it. I stand by my throat punching passion.
Lokier, Eddie Olmos will forever be redeemed in my eyes for his role in Bladerunner. Ol’ craterface has had some bad roles but that one always makes up for it.
This is a lame question to ask and answer. I am only accountable for my own actions and so are you.
I am not accountable for Paul Rodriguez being seriously unfunny nor responsible for Carlos Mencia’s brownface schtick. (And yes, ‘A Million to Juan’ really did suck.)
Alberto Gonzalez is an embarrassment only to himself; I loathe him for his complicitness in trying to their our country into a banana republic and only for that.
We are not One.
LINDA CHAVEZ ALL THE WAY, pobrecita! But she does deserve it, as does good ole Albertito!
Nathan,
I forgot about Jessica Alba. She think I’m just supposed to pop out babies. Maybe we can split it up between entertainers and policy folks.
Chidolitis,
He was on the shortlist too.
Rio,
I haven’t seen enough Paul Rodriguez movies to actually feel like punching him in the throat.
Kjerringa,
I also figured Linda Chavez would be on the shortlist.
Zulma,
Perez Hilton is Cuban. He doesn’t seem to like Jessica Alba either.
Lokier,
Olmos has some anarcho-revolutionary roots (he’s related to the Flores Magón brothers). I don’t think he’s as easy to despise as Jessica Alba.
Chavo,
Worse than Alberto?
Jennifer,
I saw that after I posted this. They seem to be in conclusion with Alberto and Jessica.
Diego,
Julio,
In defense of MEChA, I’ll say a lot of those people might have joined MEChA at one point, but they probably found it too tame. MEChA’S efforts to “reclaim Aztlan” were done through things like tutoring at high schools and working on campaigns against all the anti-people of color propositions in the 1990s (hello, 187). At UCLA we never once sat down and planned the reconquista.
GM,
I pass on Rodriguez too because he’s not quite at the level to effect change like Thomas or Gonzales.
HP,
Maybe one day you’ll make such a list! You can only hope. And really, what are you doing commenting here? You know you’re not a Chicano.
Oscar,
No comment on Ralph. Haha.
Did Raza really like Alba before her comments earlier this year? I thought we were always kinda “meh” on her. At least I was.
Most beloved would be interesting…
Pedro,
Dude, why chime in on a question you think is lame? Why not just pass? Thanks for playing!
Easy answer,
With your answers that brings the total to (I counted any mentions or ties as a point for each):
Jessica: 4
Alberto: 8
Linda: 2
Richard: 3
Olmos: 1
Paul Rodriguez: 1
Maybe one day you’ll make such a list! You can only hope. And really, what are you doing commenting here? You know you’re not a Chicano.
One can only dream! I’ve actually toyed with the idea of writing an anti-Chicano Studies book (The Anti-Chicano Studies Reader?). Though then I’d have to take the classes. Might be fun though. Irritating Chicanos is certainly one of my favorite past times. But the real argument against it is that it wouldn’t sell – not because it wouldn’t be persuasive, but because very few people take Chicanos seriously anyway…simply no market for it.
Btw, putting Jessica Alba, see here, on the vendido list is yet another reason for why getting on such a list is a good thing.
HP,
You know, to write a book, you’d actually have to be able to write and not just post a quote of the day. Chicanos don’t get irritated by you unless you hit on us.
I just realized we forgot about Tom Tancredo!!!
Great question! On a local level, I hate Albert Robles for stealing from South Gate. Shame on him…and a UCLA alum too, damnit. I also don’t like Jessica Alba (Alba!!). Alberto Gonzales still tops the list of most embarrasing Latinos (using the all-encompassing term for our Spanish-speaking folk of Latin America… the term Chicano implies a certain deeper sense of identity and responsibilty to act–something that Gonzales clearly doesn’t have) in power.
Momo,
I was going to name all of the people recalled in that election, but I figured there was no point since these embarrassments have to be known by a large part of population. South Gate news is not known by all. Robles is the worst human being alive.
“Robles is the worst human being alive.” I disagree. In the scope of things, he is an embarrassment in South Gate, but I can list a series of persons who have done worse things to humanity. I am not defending the guy, pero tampoco exajeren.
The question, ultimately, is who is the “vendid@”? I have always understood this as a question of who was on our side, if there is a “our side”, and has lost their way or gone the other way against communal principles.
I never considered Jessica Alba as part of the community; Olmos and Paul Rodriguez, like all of us, have contradictions; Richard provides an outright rejection to the means, but seems to be trying to reconcile his privileged life with the common experience of those that have not had such privilege, though he is still not my cup of tea; Chavez seems to be my choice since she at one point understood Chicano politics and her experience at UCLA helped her reject experience, but who the f&^$ cares about her now? No one really talks about her unless it is in circles like these; and, thus, my choice out of those mentioned here has to be “Beto” who, even if he had ok judicial opinions, still has the most power and reach in causing despise.
Nonetheless, I am not satisfied with my own response because a “vendid@” assumes that such person was on a side and went the other way for whatever reason. I read into the word that such person has 1-changed sides (so they must have part of “the side”) and 2-such person has political views or allegiances that are considered as detrimental to raza as a group. To me, most fit into number two, and not number one. So I do not equate “vendid@” (1 + 2) with “Uncle Tom” (just 2), the first one requires more than the second one.
Peace.
why chime in? because the question is ignorant and dogmatic and I don’t understand why a chicana would want to play this game.
are we nothing but the color of our skin? is that it?
so every other brown person’s behavior is a reflection of you? why? how exactly did you come to that conclusion?
isn’t this simply racism? would it be okay if a white or black person were to blog about the vendido/most embarassing latino? why is it okay if a latino does it?
so who decides what is right and wrong for the ‘group/community’? on what basis? (i.e. who died and made you king?)
i’m just curious to know why you would consider this question valid, when it strikes me as vulgar. it’s not an attack on you so do take it as such.
Seriously, Jessica Alba? What was her crime? That someone is even mentioned Olmos, whose work includes being a booster for a latino film festival and latino book fair, among other things, is asinine.
‘It’s not an attack on you so don’t take it such.’
That’s what it should have read. My proofreading is off today.
‘It’s not an attack on you so don’t take it as such.’
Finally got it on take 3. Sheesh.
Mistress Cindylu,
respectfully may I add Hispanic Pundit to the most hated Chicano
then shortly after that I would like to withdraw that because adding him to that list is exactly what this man wants. He wants to be the Chicano Ann Coulter and personally, I think that’s giving him more attention. Cindylu, I know this is your house and allow me to respectfully advise you to use the CIA’s best method of punishment, Sensory Depravation. By that I mean, ignore HP and do not allow him to throw himself into the fold. This is his marketing campaign to be a jackass, so let him. My mom always says, mejor un loco que dos. Most of all, menos burros, mas elotes!
tee hee, xoxo
thanks for posing this question. for a moment there i felt as good as i used to in the old Pocho Cybercholo Chatroom by Cartoonista Lalo Alcaraz!
you’re him in the web 2.0 sense.
hug
z
Rio,
I’m not saying that I like them, I just don’t hate him. I think comedy is a necessary evil and believe me, like i said, his old comedy routine doesn’t work in today’s POMO’s context. However, i can 100% say that he was like the first real chicano on HBO around the same time that Pee Wee Herman’s movie was on. As a child who loved Michael Jackson’s Thriller and Maddona all @ the same time as the aforementioned characters, I can tell you that Paul Rodriguez was one of my first real chicano role models, then edward james olmos.
I wanted to be as funny as Paul. yes, it was misguided crude and mean humor, but i was a child, living @ The border. I remember first seeing him on our HBO channel when my dad was a taxi driver and I lived right next to the American Canal. I can not tell you how wonderful and refreshing it was to hear the chicano accent on HBO. It was like watching Mariposa the Nuyorican Poet on the film Americanos for the first time. I had only heard of her from my Nuyorican poet friends in 99 but when I SAW HER on TV, ON HBO! it was like watching Current Television today. It was like watching an independent film on You Tube of a chicano.
there’s the idea of the possibility of a chicano.
sometimes chicanos don’t have to be good, they just have to be.
this is why i think when i was 14 i admired cholo culture.
that was because they were the first mexican americans i met who were happy to speak both english & spanish. they embraced chicano language and i loved that.
i didn’t feel mexican and i didn’t feel american. then later i loved mecha but yeah, i agree with cindylu, we never sat down and planned to execute the plan de aztlan, we never got to that. in anycase, its like saying that you like those old chris rock jokes, in context today they can seem very tasteless but when indymedia is scarce, people seem to gravitate towards fantastic possibilities, see it as a form of tourist positive fantasy.
and i agree, i think that richard rodriguez is generally hated, but not by me, i’d say Jessica comes first until she apologizes, and then we can all move on.
huge hugs
z
Chidolitis,
Tom Tancredo is the child of Italian immigrants, so there’s no need to bring him up in this discussion unless it’s just people who we despise in general. If we were going to make such a list, I think he’d be up there. He’s pretty damn vile.
Momo,
I was thinking of the South Gate people when I wrote this too, but I didn’t know any of their names. You know, when framing the question I didn’t know if I wanted something as broad as Latino or something more specific as Chicano.
Diego,
We could make a local edition!
Fabian,
You make some great points on the relevancy of using vendid@ for this phenomenon. According to some things I’ve heard/read about Thomas, he really was way on the left and down before he moved way right. And yeah, talking about “our side” seems even more difficult.
Good luck with those finals!
Pedro,
You know, I’m okay with criticism, but I think you’re taking this too seriously. You’re reading way too much into the question, which was never intended. I’ve never once said that we are nothing but the color of our skin, or that actions of those despised by fellow Chicanos and Latinos are a reflection of me or our community (however defined). I considered this question because I thought it would provoke some interesting discussion. Judging by the responses to the question, apparently it did what I actually intended.
Zulma,
Glad you’re not getting your chonis in a bunch because I posed this question. I didn’t know there was a Cybercholo Chatroom on Cartoonista. I used to go there all the time to check out his latest comics.
sweet. Yep. I found the cybercholo chatroom in ’99 in my first cyberculture class at UCSD. They said, find an online community and write a paper on it. I decided to look for a Chicano forum and I found it. I’m only a little known there by the veterano posters, and of course, I got in Lalo’s hair a lot. He practically saw my whole chicano online development and I learned a lot about blogging, flaming, screaming, and Cyber-Chicano Development there.
Speaking of which the coolest poster was Manuel Urrieta who teaches Astro-physics or something @ UCLA. you should meet him, he can tell u the stories about me that of course, i’d like to forget. I don’t own a single pair of chonies, I’m a Chicana, I only have hilo type of calzones.
For some reason I believed him to be some Latino incarnation. My bad. But at least its my first correction from cindy! Woo!
Since the comments are closed in the favorite book as a kid post, I write here. My favorite book series as a kid was “The Great Brain” by John D. Fitzgerald. Many dreams were made and broken by characters such as Peg Leg Andy.
Did anyone see the Latina magazine from last month (?) with Jessica Alba all over the front and back cover? There’s a long multiple page article about her. Looks like she’s trying to clear up her name with the Latinos and Chicanos–must have paid some big money about that too. Her agent must have told her about us…hehehe